The whole book…
Well the first attempt at getting everyone together online to discuss this book was difficult due in part to the fact that I had no computer access for three Wednesdays. With only one chapter left lets take this week to discuss the book as a whole. Go ahead and comment on anything in the book you would like.
Please leave comments below. (Please follow our guidelines located on the reading fellowship page)
First 3 chapters have been great reading. It really shows us to praise God and give hjm our praise.
We owe our all to God and I am thankfull to be His child.
By: nick on September 11, 2008
at 2:25 am
John Ensor begins this conversation asking many questions about forgiveness; questions like people he has known have asked. He is sidling around to ask his big question for the chapter. Motivated by a treatise by Jonathan Edwards, he began asking and highlights for us this question: “What motivates God to want to forgive?” He answers his own question from what I think is the Westminster Catechism, “God’s own passion is to gorify himself in our knowing him and enjoying him.” He then gets more specific by distelling out the “mercy” of God as the “apex of his own glory in the eyes of all creation.”
He then quotes Romans 9:22-23 as support for this statement above. He quotes from the English Standard Version. He italisizes the words about God’s desire to, “…make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy,” The Authorized Version says it this way, “…And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.” A stiff but direct translation taken from the RSV Interlinear Greek–English New Testament is as follows: “and in order that he might make known the riches of the glory of him on vessels of mercy which he previously prepared for glory,”
Here is what I thought interesting about this reading. God appears to be interesting in making known “the riches of his glory” on us. This says to me that God is interested in sharing his glory with me. Does this check out?
In Jesus’ high priestly prayer in John 17, he says, (verse 22) “I have given them the glory that you gave me,…” then is verse 24, “…I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.”
In like manner, Romans 8:17 says that we are, “co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”
This began for me a study of the glory of God. Again and again I found texts that indicated that God wanted to share his glory with his children, he wants us to know it, share it, and experience it. When Solomon dedicated the temple he had built, it says that the temple was filled with ‘a cloud,’ and “the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the temple of God.” Here God seemed to be sharing his glory in a tangible way with his people.
The reason I listed these texts, is that I think that John Ensor saw glory as what we gave to God because of his mercy to us. I don’t see this in the text (Romans 9:22-23) or in these other references I quoted. It seems to me that God’s dream is not what he can get out of us in adoration; but rather what he can share with us of his glory.
Check it out for yourself.
Tom G.
By: Tom Gilbert on September 11, 2008
at 4:07 am
Tom and Nick thanks for your comments and reading… unfortunantly I have no cell phone access at the place were we are camping. We made a special trip in the motor home to a town to buy some emergency items and I was able to stop for a second plug my phone in and allow some comments. I will not be able to get online for a week and half… I was not expecting how far out in the “boonies” we would be.
Please keep reading you guys and commenting.
I will set the site to automatically accept comments so they will not pile up for the next week and a half awaiting my moderation.
Tom i will take a look at your interpretation and comment when I get back.
Thanks for your patience while we are gone.
God bless and thanks again for commenting.
Gotta go we are in a busy restaurant and the kids are driving me crazy.
Able
By: disableme on September 13, 2008
at 9:39 pm
I am enjoying thjs book. It trys to let us know and accept to truth that God can and will receive even the vilest of men(vilest by mans eyes). Jesus paid the price for all and by asking and believing Jesus to be their savior Gods mercy and grace can be theirs.
By: nick on September 16, 2008
at 12:38 pm
I want to take a moment and explain why I choose the book for us to read.
The book seeks to honor God by achieving the difficult task of showing us how God views us, in the light of the complete redeeming work of His Son.
I think how God views us is more important than how we view God. Desiring to know how he loves us, rather than desiring to show him our love, should be a higher priority in the believer’s life. The worship God desires is the one that desires to know Him, and understand how great it is to be known of and by him. Paul addresses this particularly in Galatians…
Galatians 4:8-9 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Some can deny the great work of the Gospel by trying to do, “The Great Work,” with their own hands and their own works. This actually denies the work God has done and still desires to do through them.
I think the author, John Ensore, hits home pretty hard in Chapter Four when he brings up, “Anorexia of the Soul”. I would be interested in what you might have thought about the points he made regarding grief.
He posses the question “How is it that one kind of grief is good for us and the other is bad, even deadly” (He is referring to 2 Corinthians 7:10)
He brings up the great point that Godly grief has hope… the hope of salvation, and it ultimately brings the sinner to dependency on Gods saving and forgiving power. The sinner who decides to grieve over their sin in the light of how it makes them look is not seeing the greatness of their offense. Our offenses are not against ourselves they are against God. Will the self centered sinner ever really know what the meaning of the rhetorical question Paul raises in Romans 7:24… O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Praise God our victor is Christ Jesus! We will grow more in grace the more we give him our problems.
I love chapter 5!
The idea of Christ as our rescuer is so important in the Gospel being a great work of God and not of great men and women.
The more we flail about in trying to save ourselves from the quicksand the faster we sink. The sooner we just give in and realize we cannot escape, the closer we are to seeing the rescuer as Christ and not ourselves.
What did you think about chapter 7, pages 107 to 108, regarding the women who had an abortion and was experiencing guilt?
Chapter Seven’s discussion of the instruction of the conscience, is another reason why I recommend this book. The author has a pure and deep understanding of a biblical view of the human conscience. The mind, heart, soul, spirit, and conscience of man are the network of our inner selves. When the inner man, Jesus Christ, takes up residence, we need his instruction and reassurance that their is no more condemnation for those who are in Christ (Romans 8:1). Our conscience is the judicial system of self that needs to learn to acknowledge the Godhead as Judge.
Chapter Ten
I wonder what great things God wants to do in your life? I wonder what great things he wants to do in mine? I will say this, do not be fooled by the grand pursuits and immodest ambitions the world dangles in front of you. True humility will allow the Gospel to be great in you and through you for others to see how great our God is.
In Nehalem Valley, God desires to be Great. God desires to do a great work. God desires men and women who want Him to be great. Lets find opportunities to allow God to be great. Lets find opportunities to show how great the work God is in your life. Don’t pursue personal greatness, allow yourself to be pursued and ultimately apprehended by the great work of the Gospel.
What did you think?
By: disableme on September 26, 2008
at 7:02 pm
Tom you commented…
“Here is what I thought interesting about this reading. God appears to be interesting in making known “the riches of his glory” on us. This says to me that God is interested in sharing his glory with me.”
I believe Ensore is expressing God sharing His glory with man. I believe His exegesis of Romans 9:22-23 is solid in its context. In order for Gods glory to be shared justice must be served. I believe Ensore believes the glory of God is, in part, his forgiveness and this is what he shares with us and in turn we should share with others. Chapter nine deals with the topic of “The great work Shared” and as for our present earthly condition this is what I believe God desires to share with us so that we might share it with others.
The meaning of iniquity is literally not equal. In order for us to see and understand what it means for God to share anything with us I think we are blessed to see how he has removed our iniquities and restored our fellowship as sons of God.
By: disableme on September 26, 2008
at 7:26 pm